Is the Fed Gov (NIH) Funding Nazi-Style Death Camps?

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This section contains the 7 postings comprising the Original Proposal --

(1) 8/5/2016 -- “Clone Rights -- Involuntary Soldiers, Sex Slaves, Lab Rats, Etc. (including the text of the NIH proposed changes to the 2009 Human Stem-Cell Research Guidelines as published in the 8/6/2016 Federal Register)

(2) 8/5/2016 -- “What If Yale U’s 50% Human DNA Were All Dominant Traits???” (including the Discussion Outline for our 4/9/2008 meeting 8 years ago)

(3) 8/9/2016 -- “Marked Changes To The 2009 Human Stem-Cell Research Guidelines”

(4) 1/29/2017 -- “Human-Pig Chimeras -- Decent Behavior Despite Open Barn Door” (including 1/26/2017 Washington Post article)

(5) 1/31/2017 -- “Is the Fed Gov (NIH) Funding Nazi-Style Death Camps?” (to which it is respectfully suggested that the correct answer is “not yet, but soon”)

(6) 1/31/2017 -- “The Human-Pig Chimera Report From The Salk Institute” (ver batim text)

(7) 2/7/2017 -- “The Article in Britain’s ‘Nature’ About Rat-Mouse Chimeras” (ver batim text)

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These 7 postings were viewed 609 times before being transplanted here from the "Possible Topics for Future Meetings" section of this bulletin board.
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johnkarls
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Is the Fed Gov (NIH) Funding Nazi-Style Death Camps?

Post by johnkarls »

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Originally posted by johnkarls » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:56 am
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Yes, I am terribly upset that we, as a nation, have (so far as we know) no reason to believe that the Federal Government’s National Institute of Health (“NIH”) is NOT funding Nazi-style death camps!!!

In the last few days, we have received the announcement of The Salk Institute (Jonas Salk is the legendary inventor of the Polio Vaccine!!!) that they have created a Human-Pig Chimera.

Which is exactly what was envisioned, at least as a first step, by the NIH’s new 8/5/2016 rules for funding such projects.

So what is the objection to ranches raising Human-Pig Chimeras for human organ harvesting???

At least without further investigation to salve our consciences that we are different from Nazi Germany???

If the reader has jumped to this section without reading the foregoing material, a Chimera is an organism that is created with DNA from two different species.

When we were studying this issue for our 4/9/2008 meeting 8 years ago, the Yale U. Biology Department had created a Chimera with 50% Human DNA and 50% Chimp DNA and was in the process of creating a Chimera with 75% Human DNA and 25% Chimp DNA.

And Gwen Ifill, who was interviewing the Yale U. Biology Prof., did not even bother to ask whether, for the 50-50 Human-Chimp Chimera, ALL OF THE DOMINANT TRAITS HAPPENED TO BE HUMAN (and all of the recessive traits happened to be Chimp) so that Yale U. was treating as a “lab rat” an organism THAT WAS 100% HUMAN!!!

Willfull ignorance!!!

Just like the German public during the Nazi era!!!

And now comes the Salk Institute to tell us they have created a Human-Pig Chimera!!!

And The Washington Post is leading the “brain washing” parade of the national media trying to convince the public that WANTONLY KILLING MILLIONS OF HUMANS (SO FAR AS WE KNOW) FOR THEIR ORGANS is a wonderful scientific development!!!

Here’s why we need to investigate further.

In mixing Human DNA with Pig DNA, the obvious goal is to create a Human-Pig Chimera WHO HAS HUMAN ORGANS THAT HAVE BEEN CLONED FROM THE HUMAN BEING WHO NEEDS THEM FOR TRANSPLANT!!!

By way of background, I was surprised to learn 19 months ago from my law school roommate 1964-1967 who had, decades ago, donated one of his kidneys to his daughter, that the DNA of transplanted organs never changes!!!

Dumb Old Me, I had remembered from 9th-grade biology that there is not a single atom in your body that was there 7 years ago!!!

[Skin cells, for example, have a much shorter life cycle with a normal-size person shedding 1 million skin cells per hour and growing underneath 1 million new skin cells per hour. Indeed, what we call “dust” requiring periodic cleaning of our homes is in fact the build up of the millions of skin cells that we have shed.]

So, Dumb Old Me, I thought that no later than 7 years after the organ transplant, the completely-new kidney (at least in the sense that it would NOT contain a single atom that came from the donor’s body) would contain only his daughter’s DNA.

NOT so!!!

It still contains ONLY his DNA. And like any other organ recipient (unless it has come from an identical twin), his daughter must still take anti-rejection drugs to prevent her body’s immune system from destroying the transplanted kidney.

So back to the Human-Pig Chimera.

Subject to further investigation (the “brain washing” from The Washington Post, of course, does NOT address the issue), I am assuming that each of the Human-Pig’s organs will have to be either 100% human or 100% pig.

Because if an organ were 50% human and 50% pig, it would be worthless for transplant.

[By way of background, close relatives who, such as my friend and his daughter, share 50% of their DNA, do not AUTOMATICALLY qualify for organ transplants -- both must be tested for whether the DNA of the to-be-transplanted organ is close enough to 100% that the life-long drugs that will suppress the recipient’s immune system to protect the transplanted organ, will not have to be so strong that they cause the recipient to die quickly of the first disease to come along.]

So how does The Salk Institute propose to create the CLONED ORGAN???

I am guessing that creating TWO Human-Pig Chimeras for each patient is only going to mean a 25% chance of success (50% for the first Chimera times 50% for the other) that one of the Human-Pig Chimeras would have a clone of the organ that the patient needs to have replaced.

So the comparatively-trivial question of how many Human-Pig Chimeras to create for a particular patient depends on how much the patient is willing to pay to obtain better Las Vegas odds that there will be created a clone of the organ that needs replacement.

So why is Salk and the NIH apparently planning to kill humans???

If my assumption is correct that each organ of a Human-Pig Chimera is either 100% Human or else it is 100% Pig, then the same must be true of the brain of the Human-Pig Chimera!!!

And obviously I am assuming that the only way to get the Human-Pig Chimera to grow is to have a fully-functioning brain (whether Human or Pig) to give the proper biological orders to the Chimera’s body in general, and its organs in particular, to grow.

There seems to be universal agreement that your essence is your brain.

If you have any other organ replaced, you are still you.

But if you had a brain transplant (when such things become possible), there seems to be universal agreement that THE OTHER PERSON whose essence is THAT BRAIN, has taken over your body. Universal agreement NOT that you are still there, and have simply replaced your brain like you might replace a kidney.

So the ULTIMATE QUESTION!!!

How would you (meaning your brain) like to discover that instead of being born in a human body, you have been born into the body of a Human-Pig Chimera???

And that after the 9 months from fertilization until a pig reaches full size (about 200 pounds), you will be led to the SLAUGHTER HOUSE so that your organs can be “HARVESTED”???

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CAVEATS

Yes, it is true that the Washington Post article claims that the Salk Institute did not receive any Federal Funds for the creation of its Human-Pig Chimera. [But the Washington Post article does NOT claim that the Salk Institute receives NO federal funding and any business-school student can tell you that money is fungible.] [And let’s NOT get into the petty squabble about how federal funding can support an institution and a first-rate research staff that can then operate as “hired guns” for anyone who wants to come along and provide the specific funding for a morally-reprehensible study.]

And yes, it is true that the Washington Post article does report that when the Salk Institute aborted the Human-Pig Chimeras after “about a quarter of the pig’s gestation period” --

“by the time the embryos were removed from the sow and analyzed, about one in every 100,000 cells was human rather than pig, lead author Jun Wu estimated. The human cells were distributed randomly across the chimera: Many wound up in what would become the heart (where they made up about 10 percent of tissue), some in the kidneys and liver (1 percent or less). A few developed into the precursors of neurons, a fear of bioethicists who worry about creating an animal with human or even humanlike consciousness.”

So this is “the first step” down the proverbial “slippery slope”!!!

As discussed above, for Human-Pig Chimeras to be useful for “Human Organ Harvesting,” the Human Organ is going to have to have close to 100% of its DNA from the intended patient-recipient of the transplant.

And how can that be done WITHOUT creating a Human Brain (or something close to a human brain)???

BTW, there are actually TWO Chimera studies discussed in the Washington Post article though the reader might not have noticed that fact if s/he was not “on her/his toes.”

The results of the other study -- which was published a day earlier than the Human-Pig Chimera Study, and which other study was published in “Nature” (a prestigious English multi-disciplinary scientific journal since 1869) -- involved Mice-Rat Chimeras in which mice pancreases were grown inside rat embryos. These results were reported by the Washington Post article, in part, as follows --

“The embryonic rats developed normally and were born healthy. Each had a rat-sized pancreas made of mouse cells. The whole pancreases were too big to transplant into tiny mice, so the researchers extracted just the islets — the region of the pancreas that produces hormones like insulin — and planted them in mice that had been induced to have diabetes.”

while cautioning that the Salk Institute’s Human-Pig Chimera Report had commented on the Mice-Rat Chimera Experiments as follows --

“Though they [the Mice-Rat Chimera Experimenters] have not performed an interspecies organ transfer, they were able to grow hearts, eyes and pancreases in chimeric embryos. They also grew a rat gall bladder inside a mouse embryo, even though rats don't grow gall bladders during normal development — suggesting that rats have the genetic coding for gall bladders but those genes are suppressed by their developmental environment.”

Implied in this latter quotation is that mice and rats ARE THE SAME SPECIES.

So apparently it remains to be seen whether the technique used (“clearing out a niche” in a Chimeric embryo) can be achieved for insertion of organ-specific cells from a DIFFERENT SPECIES.

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Although it may eventually prove possible to develop Chimeras that have ONLY human cells comprising a needed organ for transplant AND NOT ANY HUMAN BRAIN CELLS, we should discuss --

(1) Are we agreed that this is the proper line of demarcation for such research???

(2) Are we agreed that this line of demarcation should BECOME PART OF THE U.S. CRIMINAL CODE (as well as employed for whether federal funding will be available)???

(3) And whether, since money is fungible, federal funding will be permitted for organizations that conduct research which violates this line of demarcation???

Regarding Q-2, why should scientists who choose to live in the U.S. and/or to receive federal funding and/or to have any other relationship with the U.S. (including a tourist visa), be available as “hired guns” to commit what we consider to be murder???

[Which I recognize may be “politically incorrect” to broach since other religions of the world may not consider killing Chimeras with Human Brains or near-Human Brains to be “murder.”]

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PROCEDURAL FOOTNOTE

Yes, I admit that I have been lax (and morally reprehensible) for merely “gnashing my teeth” over our group’s failure to select this topic for investigation, and for my own failure to take individual action to investigate.

In the immediately-preceding posting on this bulletin board, I mentioned that since remonstrating so strongly would constitute “lobbying” for a particular topic proposal (which is verboten under our rules), I would be willing to accept impeachment from my role as facilitator of this group for more than 11 years.

Since posting that moral stand 35 hours ago, I have decided on an even-more-aggressive moral stand.

If this topic is NOT selected for our March 8th meeting --

(1) then since all of my spare time will be devoted to pursuing this topic, I will not have time to be involved with the March 8th meeting so someone else will have to facilitate it; and

(2) I will attempt to organize a meeting on Wednesday evening, March 15th, on this topic.

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